Conference gyro::internet_toolss

    There's a node search utility on VTX (VTX EASYNET) which can give you
    the IP name when you know the DECnet name. Go to Node Registration /
    Display Node. (E.g. this node is listed as gyro.zko.dec.com).
    
    If you know the location, a good guess is always name.loc.dec.com (like
    HUMANE:: which is humane.mro.dec.com). In fact, the database seems to
    be missing some IP addresses, but at least you can get the location and
    guess...
    

>    There's a node search utility on VTX (VTX EASYNET) which can give you
>    the IP name when you know the DECnet name. Go to Node Registration /
>    Display Node. (E.g. this node is listed as gyro.zko.dec.com).
>    
>    If you know the location, a good guess is always name.loc.dec.com (like
>    HUMANE:: which is humane.mro.dec.com). In fact, the database seems to
>    be missing some IP addresses, but at least you can get the location and
>    guess...
>    

	I happen to be working on a Web utility to allow you to do that.  It's
  in its early stages still and I haven't yet imported the DECnet and IP data
  in the database.

>    I'm getting bounced off my VMS system, and I thought I'd use the
>    "NetNotes" pc notes client to read newsgroups via TCP/IP.
>    
	NetNotes is about reading Notes Conferences.  You can't use it for
  reading newsgroups.  I assume that you are using the term rather loosely
  to mean notes conferences.

>    I found the kit OK (on http://www-ccs.wro.dec.com/NT), installed it
>    on my w95 PC, but I'm at a loss to figure out how to hook up to
>    the notes file's I'm using on VMS. The first problem seems to be that
>    in order to use TCP/IP I've got to figure out the IP hostnames of 
>    all the host systems, but there does not seem to be a place where I
>    can find this information...
>    
	Is your notebook staying on the VMS system?  If so, then you don't need
  to convert all the DECnet names to IP Names.  You can use your notebook as
  is.

>    Does anyone know where I can get help or information on how to setup
>    NetNotes?

	There's a notes conference on NetNotes on ISVHUB::NETNOTES.

		Danny

RE .0, .2

Even if your notebook is getting kicked off the VMS system along 
with you, you can still avoid the need to know the TCP/IP hostnames
of all of the notes server hostnames that you wish to access,
provided you have access to *one* TCP/IP enabled VMS notes
server, which you can use as a route-through node. I use this
configuration on NT v4.0 Intel - I have a local notebook on my PC, 
my PC runs TCP/IP only, and I use a local-ish VMS notes server that
also runs TCP/IP as a route-through node. Although I happen to have
an account on the VMS route-through system, this isn't a
requirement, depending on how security is set up on the 
notes$server account and object on the VMS system.

Thanks for the input, I'm now using NetNotes to write this...

The tip to use "vtx easynet" was a huge help, it allowed me to 
find all the location componets of the servers I needed.

re: .2 

You're right, it was early and I used "newsgroups" where I meant 
"notes". I am not going to use my notebook from the VMS system, it 
has to be moved to my PC since almost all of the VMS accounts in my 
group (including mine) are being disabled (part of the Exchange 
migration ...).

Thanks for the netnotes conference pointer!

- Michael

	There is an effort underway to update easynotes.lis to include
	a listing of hostnames for each DECnet nodename that hosts a
	notesfile.  See the replies to the following note in the official
	notesfile annoucement conference.

	Do note that there are exceptions to the rule that the hostname
	for a node is it's DECnetname.facility.dec.com.  The one exception
	I know about are the nodes in the UNIX group in ZKO.  They have
	their own subdomain named .zk3.dec.com (ie. building 3) instead
	of in .zko.dec.com.

Notefile: TURRIS::EASYNET_CONFERENCES
Note: 4255.30
Author: FUNYET::ANDERSON "Where's the nearest White Castle?"
Topic: Listing of TCP/IP Conferences??
Title: OK, let's get this done
Date: 19-MAR-1997 09:59
Lines: 12

Now that it appears my group is not leaving the company, I may have time to add
TCP/IP listings to EASYNOTES.LIS.  Note that this same information is provided
to the Web Notes listing, so TCP/IP data would probably appear there also.

How should I do this?  The current eighty columns of EASYNOTES.LIS don't have
the space for more text, so should there be a second line below the conference
and DECnet information listing the TCP/IP information?  Should the format be
expanded to 132 columns?  Should there be a separate listing?

Suggestions are welcome.

Paul

In the same note (4255) in TURRIS::EASYNET_CONFERENCES, I remarked that 
after trying to convert my local notebook to direct access via TCP, I 
found that many conference hosts either don't have TCP installed or you 
cannot have access to the notes file through TCP, so I reverted to using 
a routing VMS node.

Another alternative is to use Pathworks32. I am and it works fine allowing 
decnet assecc to the decnet only notes files.

The problem with PATHWORKS32 is that it lags significantly behind new 
releases of NT.  If your job requires you to be an early adopter of 
new versions of NT, you find yourself in a situation where you lose 
DECnet access for several months after each OS upgrade.

--PSW

    meaning that if you're one of the 3 people already running NT 5.0,
    you're out of luck.  Everyone else can use the version that's shipping.
    
    :-)
    
    Seriously, since I don't use NetNotes (yet), I can't verify if it works
    with the fairly-recently-released PATHWORKS 32's DECnet or not but it's
    certainly worth a shot.
    
    

RE: .9

    meaning that if you're one of the 3 people already running NT 5.0,
    you're out of luck.  Everyone else can use the version that's 
    shipping.

Yes, until the NT 5.0 beta test starts.  Then you will lose the
ability to run DECnet for the whole duration of the beta test
and for several months thereafter.  Everyone else who does
drivers for NT keeps up with the beta tests.  It's unacceptable
that PATHWORKS always lags behind not only the betas but the
product release versions.

--PSW

> Everyone else who does
> drivers for NT keeps up with the beta tests.

	A network adapter driver is a bit different than a full protocol
	stack with multiple interfaces, etc.

> It's unacceptable that PATHWORKS always lags behind not only the betas but
> the product release versions.

	Well I'm no longer with PW for NT, so can't speak for them, but
	the usual problem was funding (ie. not enough engineers).  And
	in a way you really can't blame Digital, DECnet is a legacy protocol
	stack.  Why spend alot of money on it, when everyone wants TCP/IP,
	and TCP/IP is bundled with the OS for free.  And the legacy servers
	the NT systems talk to support TCP/IP *and* Netbeui.

	In any case, instead of talking behing the PATHWORKS32 folks
	backs, why not take this to the PATHWORKS32 notesfile and
	let them defend themselves (or at least offer an explaination)?

I'm not talking behind anyone's backs.  I've complained to the 
PATHWORKS32 group about this many times.  And yes, the problem indeed 
is funding.

I'm fully aware of the magnitude of the task of keeping up with new 
NT releases.  It's not easy, but it's part and parcel of what you buy 
into when you choose to release product in that market space.  If you 
can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen and all that.

As things stand now, DECnet becomes unusable for a couple of months 
after every new release of Windows NT, which so far has been 
annually.  It really would make my life easier if I could run DECnet 
on my machine, but if I'm going to use it, it must be there all the 
time.  I can't afford to have critical work functions, such as email, 
stop working periodically.  Neither can the other NT users in my 
group.  We've therefore banned use of PATHWORKS32 on our machines, 
much as we'd prefer otherwise.

The real tragedy IMO is for those of our loyal, paying customers who 
for whatever reason can't kick the DECnet habit.  They bought into 
Digital's proprietary network architecture years ago and how do we 
reward them for their loyalty?  We screw them over but good every 
year or two by putting them in a Catch-22 of either losing DECnet for 
a few months or losing use of new applications (that run only on the 
new version of NT) for a few months.

Anyway, I've ranted enough for now.

--PSW

> As things stand now, DECnet becomes unusable for a couple of months 
> after every new release of Windows NT, ....

	From my experience with customers, this is *not* a problem.  Most
	customers do *not* upgrade their version of NT right away when ever
	a new version of NT comes out.  Yes, there are a small subset of
	customers that need to upgrade ASAP, but they are not the majority
	(just vocal :-).

	Hey, PATHWORKS32 is not the only layered product that doesn't
	start shipping new versions the same day as the base system.
	There's lots of Digital layered products that don't ship right
	away on new versions of Digital's own operating systems!

	BTW, there is a reason the problem is funding for a DECnet-NT
	product, you spend your money on products that make money,
	or have significant strategic importance, and DECnet on NT
	I don't believe fits either of those reaons.

    >Yes, until the NT 5.0 beta test starts.  Then you will lose the
    >ability to run DECnet for the whole duration of the beta test
    >and for several months thereafter
     ...
    > I can't afford to have critical work functions, such as email,
    >stop working periodically.  Neither can the other NT users in my
    >group
    
    You're proposing the use of Beta operating systems on your production
    systems?   You're braver than most, gunga-din.
    
    

RE: .14

Read the second part of what I said:  AND FOR SEVERAL MONTHS 
THEREAFTER.

The problem starts during beta test, but it doesn't end there.  If 
you have to be an early adopter (I have to because I develop the 
compiler that's used to build the Alpha NT OS), you lose DECnet 
periodically.

DECnet is the only bit of driver-related software I've encountered 
that has this problem.  Everyone else seems to have no problem being 
there on time.

--PSW

	Please move this discussion to Pathworks or DECnet Conferences.  This
  has nothing to do with the Internet.

		Danny

> The problem starts during beta test, but it doesn't end there.  If 
> you have to be an early adopter (I have to because I develop the 
> compiler that's used to build the Alpha NT OS), you lose DECnet 
> periodically.

	You are part of that *small* subset of customers I talked about.
	Having been an "early adopter" myself, that's called a fact
	of life.  Live with it.

> DECnet is the only bit of driver-related software I've encountered 
> that has this problem.  Everyone else seems to have no problem being 
> there on time.

	Please elaborate on those other "everyone else" you refer to
	tht ship comparable products.  Internet (and the associated
	tools), Netbeui, and IPX protocol stacks are all bundled with
	the OS so obviously they will be there on day one.

	And the PATHWORKS folks themselves are "early adopters" themselves,
	they do not get beta releases earlier than you do, so there is
	no way they *anyone* can on day one if the base system changed
	in such a way as to break layered products, even if they were
	fully funded.  And maybe you are blaming the wrong folks.  If
	layered products break with every release, then that sounds like
	the base system is not doing a good job at maintaining upward
	compatiblity.  But then Microsoft ships beta or alpha quality
	software as the final product, and replace quality with the
	worlds greatest marketing, that they can even get one development
	group inside Digital to take pot shots at another Digital group,
	instead of at Microsoft.

RE: .17

You're trying to defend something that's indefensible, but as Danny 
says that's not an argument appropriate to this notes conference.

And I AM living with the situation--by not using the DECnet product, 
which is a shame, because except for the timeliness of its 
availability on new releases on NT, I have nothing but praise for 
PATHWORKS32.  Unfortnately, that happens to be a fatal flaw in my 
case.

I will say no more on the subject (at least not here).

--PSW

> You're trying to defend something that's indefensible, ...

	No defense is needed, your complaint has no merit, which I
	proved when I called your bluff regarding those supposed
	"other similiar products that have no problem".

Every other driver-level bit of third party software I know of for Windows NT is 
available at FCS of new versions of Windows NT, or within weeks thereafter, not 
MONTHS, as is the case with PATHWORKS32.  There are no valid reasons for the 
delays, only excuses.

--PSW

>The real tragedy IMO is for those of our loyal, paying customers who 
>for whatever reason can't kick the DECnet habit.  They bought into 
>Digital's proprietary network architecture years ago and how do we 
>reward them for their loyalty?

ISO = DEC
OSI = proprietary

Best viewed with Netscape = doesn't work with anything else = open standards

Best viewed with Internet Explorer = doesn't work with Netscape = open standards

    not serious Re: ALice in Wonderland???  
    
    Hi, want to query "Alice in Wonderland" in Full Text ;-)
    
    browse http://coeasy.coo.dec.com/Easyweb.html with java-capable Browser
    choose button "Query Alice".
    
    Bert
    
    http://colore.coo.dec.com/bert.html
    
  

I just installed NetNotes on my PC running WNT V4.0 Server (IP Only). I set it
up to use a remote notebook on a VMS system. When I run NetNotes it tries to 
access my notebook and puts out an "RMS access violation" error message. What
do I need to set up on the VMS system/PC to get round this. Thanks.

I suggest you (and anyone else interested in using NetNotes) check 
out the netnotes conference and also the instructions found in 
ftp://ftp-ccs.cxo.dec.com/Kits/NetNotes/ - they got me up & running 
in short order.

Where is the "netnotes conference"?  I see none announced in 
EASYNET_CONFERENCES.

				Steve

re: .25

>Where is the "netnotes conference"?  I see none announced in 
>EASYNET_CONFERENCES.

It's at ISVNET::NETNOTES.

-Hal

RE: .21

The de facto standard is TCP/IP.  What ISO does in its ivory tower standards 
committees is irrelevant.

--PSW

A more correct statement is "TCP/IP is a defacto US standard and the rest of
the world had better agree to US control".

re .28, Don't we know it, what with that and the fact you write the date the wrong way round!!  :-)

RE: .28

It's a de facto standard in the entire marketplace.  Take your blinders off.

--PSW